Where? Navy Lookout at its best. Its a shame the old King George V dry dock in Southampton is no longer operational. This is extremely unusual behaviour as a shaft over achieving when I knows the demand reference is damn right wierd, hence getting GE in to look at it. We had business in Afghanistan, which you seem to have forgotten . The spokesman added: "Once the ship has completed her propulsion trials, she will bring her flight deck back to life before returning to Portsmouth to prepare for her autumn . Also one of the best defences we could have is a carrier at sea.Every bit of our air defence infrastructure is know and at risk. Repulse suffered five torpedo hits, Prince of Wales four. Nothing, nothing in this world is mechanically perfect! The dock plan has to match as does the profile. SKF coupling systems are designed to resist high torques to provide maximum strength reducing downtime while keeping your operations running.. Pods would have been a good idea given the troubles both carriers have had with their shafts. So now you are saying you dont need much specialised equipment. I suppose it is a mindset and training. And what happens when a commercial ship is using this new mega Portsmouth dry dock when the RN suddenly wants it ? Not convinced. You had to get the shaft insertion accurate to within 1mm atRead more . You do understand that the defence infrastructure and warship repair facilities being in PNB kinda influenced the billions (erm it wasnt) spent on dredging Pompey decision. No Dry Dock in Pompey but one (KGV dock) down the road in Southampton with direct access to a good depth of water. All of them! We dont operate escorts on that basis now. Your reply should be more widely reported as you have explained everything so well. Difficult for an outsider to determine whether these should be considered routine teething maintenance issues, or a symptom of a more complex issue(s)? In your own time, go. A couple of cruises each year say one for the RM and one for surface warfare all in the Atlantic or Med. If its a short stay. Heres hoping that next time around, this or a similar course will be what the RN does. Its unlikely much progress will be made on the investigation until the ship is in dry dock and the parts can be properly examined. Whether it be accidents like this or engineering write off. As for not matching the aviation that is one of the reasons why QE was given the green light. The news was passed on to Commodore Steve Moorhouse, commanding the UK's carrier strike group from on board HMS Queen Elizabeth in the Mediterranean. [17] The contract for the vessels was announced in July 2007, ending several years of delay over cost issues and British naval shipbuilding restructuring. You could do it but I doubt ABP would let you with giving them a lot of money. 2 shafts. I doubt it will ever become an operational capability. Until the early 1970s a warship would commission with a new crew after a major refit. Her flight deck is 70 metres wide and 280 metres long - enough space for three football pitches - and she holds 45 days' worth of food in stores. The Turkish RAM is called the LEVENT. Ive yet to hear a credible excuse as to why that cant be requisitioned if necessary and put back into service. Just seems odd that if that were so that PofW still in build at that time wasnt thoroughly checked to make sure there was any anomaly be it similar or new. Dont think the President of Europe thing really matched the existing and proposed EU members naval aviation France had a nuclear CTOL carrier, Italy was upgrading its VTOL ship and the same with Spain. Post 2026, SoS Def has stated that he has a funding line in place to purchase another 24 aircraft taking us up to 72. Liners and such go for smoothness that 4 shafts gives if they wanted the carriers a much higher top speed 4 shafts would have been necessary This happened in WW2 when Illustrious class were built and had 3 main turbines and shafts ( like the earlier Ark Royal) but the last 2 , Implacable and Indefatigable were improved with a slightly higher top speed from more boilers and 4 turbines/shafts. What an odd comment? The real embarrassment would be the failure of the other shaft/screw mid Atlantic necessitating a tow. During builder trials all the experts were onboard with the extra sensors etc. She sailed using only the port shaft and her propellors did not strike the sea bed as has been rumoured. Current Position Specifications of HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier Review Wiki The repairs are for the propeller shaft area The rest of the ship is fine. Dredged and surveyed for the carriers arrival. If new shaft and prop parts are needed it could take a number of months to get them manufactured. When it mentions problems with the GE Motors, are these the same motors that cause the problems on the Type 45s or am I just entirely wrong ? OK thanks, Im no expert on these things, just saw the name GE and Motors which from memory were also fitted to the T45s and wondered if there was a theme. But I imagine the senior officers will go on leave. Hi John, I was kind of half joshing about the second hand carrier, I was more thinking that as a contingency and force projection measure that some catobar training for the RAAF pilots could potentially mean carrier sharing with USN and even the French a bit like the RAF/RN and the US do with the F-35Bs on the QE. They were minor problems , such as you expect with a new ship, but isnt it easier to swap a new pod in, if you have a failure, rather than all this complication of shafts and couplings. Timeframe may be subject to negotiation. US navy base crew stay on board. Come ask the experts here. Bad Vibro readings probably wont show up because until it does let go (probably through metal fatigue) it will continue to do its job. The causal factor identified in this instance was that PWLS starboard shaft was misaligned from build, and that the incorrect installation of key components resulted in the defect suffered.. Probably clipped Bembridge Ledge. Coincidence? I was reading comments on YouTube and someone who said she has been righted a day or 2 ago. Tiny amount of prop wash means little or no power in the water.? Royal Navy Plans Preemptive Repairs to HMS Prince of Wales' Port Shaft When you are down in the bowels of a ship you can hear the props in a static test. Cheers from Durbs, Geoff, Its worth going back to the beginning of the project that resulted in the Canberra class. No you justify it. The HMS Prince of Wales obviously has had its Harbour Acceptance Trials and Sea Acceptance Trial and would, in my opinion, be considered in all respects Ready for Sea. But saying that, my first posting was Chatham, Posted to Chatham? Fantasies about getting revenue from commercial dockings or even more fancifully foreign navies are just that. The operational impact has been limited. I doubt shes hit anything Prop. If a small percentage of the billions spent unnecessarily dredging Pompey was directed to upgrading and maintaining this strategic facility. Even Turkey has produced its own version of the 21 launcher, I remember its name. For me the real question is what and how? Rosyth has a number of docks so keeping the biggest open for the carriers still leaves others on site doing RN repair/refit/scrapping work plus the ship building operation. The dry dock isnt the main problem in Southampton. So unlikely DMND would go to the states. Also, its not something that is done routinely, it may be done during very specific testing by ship builders and OEMs only! Interesting as she was delayed leaving Portsmouth with a fault that needed sorting out. Surely those in charge know by now which it was, so why the secrecy? as far as I can remember we never had this problem with the Invincible Class ships. I made the motor ends of those shafts including what I would loosely describe as the armature..an absolute pain in the ass for my guys to machine and assemble! The HMS Queen Elizabeth is the largest ship ever built for the Royal Navy. sea trials in 2019 were noted as within normal levels and the ship was subsequently accepted into RN service. Wiki says RMS Queen Mary 1934 draws 389 in old money (11.8m) vs HMS Queen Elizabeth drawing 36.0 (11.0 m). Side shores have mostly been dispensed with but that can depend on the Hull form of the ship being drydocked. Aviation ships are best built big. I saw her prep for PROD A and then it all went quiet, next day sails trailing the shaft. This site has no official endorsement by the RN or MoD. Prop shaft issue on HMS POW? The Bays have azimuth, I know they are RFA. No AC, blown outside air. Particularly given that PWLS had spend nigh-on two months continuously at sea in late spring. And a memory came back. The only thing that isnt there is a QEC-sized dock. Thanks, that makes more sense- like @Salty Dog I was thinking in Amp hours and wondering what mental gymnastics were needed to make that work easily! The ships are the largest ever built for the Royal Navy and the carriers are powered by GE's energy-efficient, integrated full-electric propulsion system. https://www.admiraltyshipmodels.co.uk/hms-queen-elizabeth-warship-model-c2x36289341 You can see the A frames (in red) right behind the propellers. Depends on how far the cat is thats being buried Already been a good few nails how many more would you like QECs and T45s really have been a huge waste of money. I have renewed sheared off couplings on USN ships, which where down to metal fatigue. It may never have been installed right and have chosen this time to fail (properly not that likely). Why so? We also has one of the largest EEZs in the world, spread from the Antarctic to the north seas, Atlantic to Pacific. Bad decision to sail the carrier, when she wasnt fit to be at sea. The motors never had a fault, they are very similar to the T45 motors (minor differences) , but again its hardly ever the motors that have an issue. The Royal Navy is based in Pompey, has been for centuries and will continue to be for the foreseeable. Hi Daniele, I found this rather amazing model kit online with some great pictures including one of the rudders and propellers. It would make more strategic sense, and be financially and manpower wise more achievable to purchase a couple of squadrons of B-21s for the RAAF instead. Yes its a bit inconvenient to get in and out of but for a job thats likely to take till well into next year its not an issue. There are water cooled bearings supporting the shafts built into the A-frames. The 3bn Royal Navy aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales has broken down just one day after departing from Portsmouth to begin a four-month deployment to the US. Why go there when you can go to Rosyth with its working shipyard facilities? It also mentioned that HMS Queen Elizabeth checked installation alignment readings, detecting no abnormalities. All these investigations are a cover up. You Aussies are the most level headed folk in the world. Yes, to the best of my knowledge RAAF Super Hornets and Growler are identical to their USN sisters, but dont forget RAAF aircrew are not capable, or trained in, CATOBAR operations, its not just being qualified once, it also requires regular training to continue to be qualified. HMS Prince of Wales to be dry-docked while HMS Queen Elizabeth takes on This is a rare event and a situation described by the First Sea Lord as unprecedented as few marine engineers can remember an instance of this happening. 43 cdo are based across the clyde at faslane, and could provide a temp security until a permanent solution is put in place. Britain needs to be able to influence and keep open the sea lanes that are and always have been the life blood of this nation. Dozens of cruise ships do have pods for very specific reasons which pertain to them. Marine GT like the aviation engines they are derived from are designed to be overhauled off the wing/out of engine room. If you go for electric propulsion, surely it would make more sense to go for pods to power the ship. Two hulls to support the Fleet and not be the centre of the Fleet. Successful Sea Trial of UK's Aircraft Carrier, HMS Prince of Wales Besides we need a new repair ship. Shipbuilding wont be coming back to the South, because all the core build workforce have retired or gone elsewhere. The T45 had quite a few issues with the converters that run the motors in the early days, but most of this was just development work. Hopefully doesnt require months of fine tuning and callibration. Building large aircraft carriers was the right decision in almost every respect but comes with the downside of requiring bigger infrastructure. Youve never actually done any of this have you? The higher speed could have been achieved with larger diameter propellers on the existing 3 shaft design, How EXACTLY did the coupling fail metal fatigue in a component would surely be the only acceptable explanation. They do indeed. They were in portacabins at Rosyth while HMS PoW was being built so little accommodation available there. The UK is paying far too much money for its ships for them to be pulling up lame as much as they are. Might have to cover a bit for the KiwisRead more , Quentin, Mate, you bring up a number of points, some are leaving me scratching my head. If say it could be loaded and the missiles dont need to be touched for 1-5 years then maybe. Im an old fart too. Very simply because the Jarheads will not permit USAF to outmaneuver USMC for program funds. is that an external SKF coupling that connects the outer propellor shaft to the drive shaft from the propulsion motors failed., Its a worry in thats its again an integrated system which supposedly controls the different types of generators GT or diesel for whole of ship electric supply ( I think thats what it is ), Integrated Full Electric Propulsion (IFEP) systems for the new Queen Elizabeth class (QEC) carriers. Here we provide some more details of HMS Prince of Wales recent mechanical breakdown, plans for repairs and how HMS Queen Elizabeths programme is being altered in response. Im sure the trials will be better monitored by people who know what they are doing and that the test equipment is better than the last time. it will be rare that both will be available. Prince of Wales', Already a Janes subscriber? HMS Prince of Wales Shaft failure investigation results, Social Media and Comment Moderation Policy, HMS Defender hands over Glasgow affiliation to HMS Glasgow. Another new carrier, USS Gerald R Ford, has had many problems too and a lot more money was spent on her! Wave class tankers to remain in extended readiness to 2028, https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2002-04-24/debates/00e95200-4822-429c-b89e-efb4b7c36850/HmsYork(SeaRamTrial), Four nations join forces to bolster Ukraines air defence, NHS trusts challenged by attack surface complexities, Defence Committee Chair warns over British military decline, UK Minister discusses Russian bomber fleet, Ukraine war shows conflict expanding into space, Military helicopter draws crown over London, Enough is Enough, Francois blasts military home safety, British aircraft continue to supply Ukraine with firepower. A very useful comment by a marine engineer at the bottom of the comments wonders if the coupling was disconnected for testing the motors and might not have been reconnected properly ? Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. It has been let go being used to export scrap metal! Personally I think through have created an enormous circus for nothing. Looking for a Rolls Royce solution when you need a JCB. We should have let the RAF have fast air in terms of operating Bravos. I resisted the temptation to read the Mail Onlines article but the masochistic side of me gave in and I looked. I wouldnt be surprised if shes out of service for the rest of the year, particularly if they decide to bring forward the Lloyds recertification work that was scheduled for next year. Can what they are needing to go to the USA to do be done in the uk if this trip fails? All achievable. QEs replacement might be more in number. And opinions are like arseholes, we all have one! If you need workshops and gantries etc, that would be possible to fix. Better to have something at sea that works, than sitting useless in a dry dock. They take up considerable deck space and beg the question as to..why? But to be honest wed all be worrying about the fact that the shaft was doing 60 or more when it should have been doing 30, and the fact that if it was doing that there is a very real chance of breaking mooring lines and crashing into other ships (QE).. Ah I wonder where the blogs troll was recently. You realise that linguistically that that is nonsense or are you so used to spouting it you dont notice? There has to be a new offence of Incompetence or Indolence Tantamount to Treason (IITT) that gets a court martial for service personnel or a straight treason trial for civilians. How many of those cruise ships do you think have spare pods sitting around for modular swap-out repairs as you and the OP suggested? These disappointments are not uncommon with new ships. Point is that all equipment has periodic availability problems, even new ones, and especially complex ones of new design. Plus looking after the BAS boats. The original departure of the vessel earlier this week was delayed, with families of crew reporting a technical fault causing the hold-up. Prince of Wales' Something doesnt add up here as RN guys are not silly. The letter outlined that the investigation covered various aspects of the ships design, build, acceptance phases, and operations during Fleet time. Arent these capital ships absolutely worth it!? I notice that 3 months on there is still no clear news on how this coupling failed . Sailing past the Still & West pub, as warships have done for 100s of years! , Dr Barry William Maiden Phd eng Bsc eng Ch.eng FIMARE its simple the ship builders are responsible for all repairs due to the warranty given by the makers Even after agreed sea trials as this is not due to normal wear and tear We all new these two vessels were a disaster waiting to happen as they were built by yards who had lost two generations of shipbuilders xxx. Of course if three 40,000 ton ships had been built, the spotlight would have shone even more brightly on the RNs overall shortage of ships in the escort fleet. At least with the F35B and STOVL route, we are not in the same position as the USS Ford. In addition, quite impressed w/ the erudition of some who chose to comment: believe there are shipyard execs, marine and design engineers, maintenance supervisors and almost innumerable operators w/ in depth experience lurking on this site. The disease of European carriers, do not worry, at least France can understand your pain. ?, plus 2 tugs. Transformational things are. The completed Prince of Wales began sea trials in September 2019 and first arrived at her new home base of HMNB Portsmouth in November 2019. I am sure all are doing their best, but the impression is given that these two spend an inordinate amount of time alongside shrouded in scaffolding. So losing one of the hulls doesnt matter really. Burdensome bureaucracy. Precision engineering is not for the faint hearted. Strongly recommend it for anyone with a historical interest in wartime salvage ops. Generators on HMS Prince of Wales Fired Up - The Maritime Executive Were buying fewer aircraft, so that makes more sense to have more ships? Please leave a comment below if you have something to say! The USN has an active program with fullsize aircraft, we are playing about with oversized RC planes. Like most politicians he knows nothing of military matters. Westlant22 now becomes Westlant23. So although the shaft was spinning at 60AH, the propeller was not! Threaders can also mean absolutely fecked. As will the RN. I served on Invincible class, and we completed exercises with just one prop. Its what new ship classes do. The new Royal Navy carrier HMS Prince of Wales will be out of service for a total of about half a year for repairs to her propulsion system, a spokesman for the service told the BBC - after which. The letter also provided details on the non-statutory inquiry (NSI) into Also, arent they too slow for carriers? And a spare 1500 matelots to man them. The HMS Prince of Wales broke down on Saturday - less than hours after setting sail to undertake training exercises with the US Navy and Marine Corps and the Royal Canadian Navy. So what parameters will be used during sea trials to prove that the realignments are what they should be and that we dont get another coupling failure . If anything Blair wanted to be seen as the senior partner with US on a global arena not herding cats with an EU navy, I think he wanted a bigger job than being PM of the UK. Client Login After that, who knows, as its all linked with future procurement of Tempest! The problem is the lack of a full ship repair yard and all that brings in terms of facilities. HMS Prince of Wales (R09) | Royal Navy She will have a crew complement (minimum crew) of around 700, increasing to around 1,600 with aircraft onboard. The motors and drives are tuned to respond to the know load of the propeller. More like a unique defect caused by progressive degradation of components within the coupling. The reality is both QE & PoW have had numerous problems throughout their short lives. Britain should be concentrating on the defense of its immediate North Atlantic and GIUK Gap maritime environment and not cruising the world. Definitely not holiday flats as its smack in the middle of a dockyard, but extra container parking wouldnt shock me. With the subs, if the SSN fleet cant come soon enough theyre surely going to need an interim solution for an extra 2-3 subs maybe? HMS Prince of Wales warship grinds to a halt over 'failure to grease There will be an updated and/or replacement engine for F-35B. 1. Second your compliment! The damage is done. The HMS Prince of Wales is a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier that is currently being constructed for the Royal Navy.When completed, the ship will be the largest and most powerful warship ever built for the UK. At what point does a ship in refit become unavailable until that refit is completed? Ship fixer is absolutely right, a failed coupling is such a long shot.. Its not common.. Lets take repair first. The couplings I have worked on where hydraulic shrink to fit. Compensating ABP for those sort of constraints is likely to require a shedload of money to solve a problem that exists only in some fevered minds. Would we not have been better off with E2x than the lucklustre and cheap Crowsnest? Yeah its been a long road. The Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier HMS As Deep points our below, the slow force build up (largely driven by a combination of MFTS issues and the continued failure to move from LRIP into FRP for the aircraft contracts) is not helping. Rosyth with all its constraints remains the only viable option for the foreseeable future. They can be deployed to do exactly what you state, but can also operate in strike, littoral and humanitarian ops modes. Theres dozens of cruise ships that have these pods and theres even a mobile floating dock that can lift and repair some of the largest liners even in Bermuda Im sure you remember the days of the hammerhead cranes, when they had to lower very large weights into the floating hull during fit out. I am sure the Navy has broadly similar targets for availability, based on fitness to deploy. You wont be hearing any cavitation simply because for a low-power, low rpm basin trial, youre not turning the prop quickly enough to generate such. This is a distinctly disturbing trend when one considers the major problems with the T45s propulsion systems. I said the closet thing. IIRC QE got rope wrapped around her prop shaft and that slightly misaligned a propeller blade. HMS Prince of Wales: Royal Navy's Most Expensive - 19FortyFive HMS Prince of Wales (53) - Wikipedia "Building one aircraft carrier is a sign of national ambition. I have a sense of deja vu discussing this with you and understand your comprehensive reply, but at some stage this ship must have been designed to accommodate Harriers. It is sloppy workmanship as demonstrated on TV on the Queen Elizabeth: missing bolts on the shaft supports signed off by engineers in the yards and on board. We are still a big economic power and more reliant on world trade than most, added to which the threats to our way of life are coming from far afield. Im assuming that theres got to be some commonality with the Phalanx system and its suppliers but yes, involving actual missiles is another level above. 1. Which has still yet to clear F35Cs from using its EMALS. You usually factor losses into the number you order. There are no spare CATOBAR carriers, the last one retired was USS Enterprise, currently beingRead more . As for more ships I do agree. in the media being wrong pays better and gets more clicks. Secondly if youre in the SCC (which is above the waterline) and your indicated shaft rpm are double that demanded, youre going to be flapping that the ship is going to break her lines and start hitting things (large expensive things like QNLZ, moored ahead of you).

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